“But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”
King James Version (KJV)
Ronald Whittemore's comment on 2022-01-27 03:36:22:
Amen S Spencer,
Very well put. The same Spirit, also John 15:26-27, during those times, fulfilling the law and the prophets was a purpose. What can be unclear sometimes it was to the Jews first, it was not until all the prophecies concerning this had to be fulfilled. The beginning of the Church was Jews only and the law was still in play until Peters dream and Paul as we see in Acts 10 and Acts 15 and other places.
There is one thing I repeat over and over when I read or study is "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear". It reminds me to shake out my thoughts and preconceived ideas where I can hear what Jesus through the Holy Spirit is ready to show me. I still have much to hear and each time it is a wow, praise God moment.
God bless,
RLW
S Spencer's comment on 2022-01-26 20:13:15:
Great reply Ronald.
I believe all through the scripture it supports the view the Holyspirit empowers the believer and as the scriptures you pointed out it took the dwelling of the Holyspirit to perform in them to minister under this new covenant. You see it in the life of Peter here in Luke 22:32. When was Peter strengthened and start to perform? It's obvious in scripture after he was empowered. Christ was preaching his death and resurrection, but they couldn't receive it. In Luke 18:31-34. he declared to them what the Prophets has written, and they still couldn't grasp it because it hidden from them.
Also, in John 16:12-14. seems to suggest the same thing. The preaching of the Cross was hidden from their eyes, and it seems Paul is mentioning the same thing throughout his epistles speaking of the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:7-14.
The Holyspirirt is essential for understand and walk. Once he reveals his truth to us they're written on our hearts it takes him to exercise those truths in us and perfect our walk. we respond to the truth by the power of the Holyspirit, likewise the Apostles.
For it is God which worketh in you both to "will" and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63.
The bible is not like our textbooks in school, what we have here has to be revealed to you, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.
Also: 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.
You see the Holyspirits power over the flesh in Romans 8:1-14.
You see the Holyspirirt working in us through baptism given us power to cease from sin in Romans 6:1-18.
You see the contrast of the two natures in Romans 7:1-6. and so on. Here we see the contrast of what we had when we were under the law compared to what we have in Christ.
God bless.
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-26 09:50:03:
Chris
I understand your point of view.
I just think we are to speak truthfully and lovingly about brethren, alive today or who lived long ago. I just think that it is wrong to disparage the apostles when we do not know the content of their minds, hearts,or faith.
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-26 09:19:32:
Dear Ronald
Your point is well taken.
Those of us today know Jesus from the perspective of completed Scripture. The apostles lived out the events of Jesus' life and, though believing Hom to be the Messiah and Son of God, they did not come to know Hom as Savior until He rose from the dead and gave them understanding of what He was teaching them. So, yes, they were afraid for good reason. If they crucified Jesus, then they, too, we in danger.
We do not know what was in their minds and hearts during this time, but they believed in Jesus and He preserved their faith through all the events of His differing and death.
Because only Jesus knew the apostles thoroughly and we do not, I defend the apostles when people speak against them. As you mentioned, none of us can be so smug as to think we would act any differently than the apostles if we were in their shoes. We should be respectful of them as those hand picked by Jesus to disciple and then send out into the world to spread the good news of Him in a hostile world.
Tim legarie's comment on 2022-01-26 06:54:15:
God bless Gigi this is jcbu undercover debate is good but was just thinking that this is where the bible is questioning the readers? About there individual covenant with God.This is were believers in the comments in the bible have an oppourtunity to write their faith in the book of life.I Tim Legarie will not deny my saviour Jesus Christ.God bless you have a God day.
jcbu undercover's comment on 2022-01-26 06:26:09:
I can only respond to your first sentence.With scripture.Mathew 26:34 Jesus said unto him verily,I say unto thee,That this night before the cock crow,thou shall deny me thrice.My name is Tim Legarie ,and I will not deny Jesus Christ.
Chris's comment on 2022-01-25 20:57:34:
Indeed GiGi. I think that other folks' opinion on this is based on the Gift of the Holy Spirit Who baptizes, indwells, seals & empowers for life & service. The question therefore is, if the disciples did not experience this mysterious blessed Act of the Spirit till Pentecost, then what was their spiritual condition prior?
For this matter & many others, I always first ascertain which dispensation are we looking at. Clearly, the Lord, his chosen disciples, & all whom they encountered were still living under the Old Dispensation: of the Law, looking towards the Messiah of God & His Salvation (albeit not the salvation they expected). Therefore, in respect to the disciples, they like all others (even Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc.), were subject to God, living in a sinful condition yet expressing devotion & trust in God to forgive them & help them. And if the saints of old were commended for their faith, not even receiving the promise (Hebrews 11:39), we cannot discount them from being true believers & worshippers of God. But once the Sacrifice of Jesus was completed, the Requirement for forgiveness (both theirs & ours) was accepted & sealed by God: the Blood availed in full efficacy for those once under the Law & those believing without the Law.
The disciples obviously were in an interesting point in time, having been subject to the Law & pharisaical demands, then meeting & believing in the One Who would abrogate the Law that only brought sin & death (Romans 7:6-11), & then receiving the anointing & indwelling of the Spirit, Who would guarantee freedom from the penalty, hopelessness & powerlessness of that Law. Were the disciples in any different dispensation than those of previous millennia? The same God Who accepted the faith & worship of Jacob under the Law, would accept these simple followers of Christ by their faith & obedience, awaiting not many days hence, when the Law could no longer kill, but they would have the Spirit Who would give them life & power to live.
jcbu undercover's comment on 2022-01-25 18:48:03:
God bless Gigi never be offended for seeking! o o o ooo ooo Jesus said to Peter you will deny me 3 times before the cock crows Now I do not Know what I would do then.But now I am Tim Legarie and I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and set me freeeeeeeeee.In the movie we talked about were the police man was convinced he was guilty of rape he was drinking and when you drink it can allow in evil spirits like he believed he was guilty of raping his daughters because he blacked out and would believe anyone that told him what he had done evil spirits.BEWARE!He was not guilty,innocent but the devil had convinced him in his blackout that he was guilty and even put it into his head.Temperance temperance temperance Nothing can not be done good!If not done for God! Revelation the dragon from the sea china the virus powers and princeapalities.We are all on this journey together we can grow o o o o o o o! 123 Father Son Holy Spirit guide us all Lord with your wisdom ,and knowledge.AMEN
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-25 18:21:42:
Thanks Chris
It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.
Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.
I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.
If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.
They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.
But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.
So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-25 18:20:32:
Thanks Chris
It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.
Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.
I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.
If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.
They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.
But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.
So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-25 18:20:32:
Thanks Chris
It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.
Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.
I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.
If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.
They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.
But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.
So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-25 18:20:24:
Thanks Chris
It does seem that some who have posted on this forum seem to think that they knew for sure that the spiritual state of the apostles either before Pentecost was of unbelievers. Scripture does not support that view.
Those who speak against the apostles are speaking ill of people who are not here to defend themselves. Thankfully, Scripture gives us the truth.
I believe Jesus knew more than anyone what yhesen believed and what they needed to learn before He ascended. To think that the Holy Spirit was going to do what Jesus could not is disturbing. God is a unity of persons and all three work together to accomplish the divine will.
If the Holy Spirit can regenerate people after Pentecost as the apostles preached the gospel, then Jesus could regenerate the apostles when He taught them the truth these men needed to know to believe in Him. They heard Him preach, learned from Him in intimate settings, observed His miracles, met with Him after He resurrected, saw Him ascend to heaven.
They knew who He was and what He had done for salvation before Pentecost. Jesus taught them these things before He ascended. To me, it is obvious that Jesus accomplished in each of His apostles prior to Pentecost the very saving faith that the apostles would see generated in others as they preached the gospel.
But I guess that some speak negative words about these men as if, it seeks, they think that they know Jesus better than the apostles did.
So, I speak up about this view because it isn't supported by the Word and this view can lead some to discount the writings and accounts of these apostles in the Scripture. It is important to not bear false witness against others, especially believers.
Ronald Whittemore's comment on 2022-01-25 17:57:23:
Hey Jcbu, Chris, and GiGi,
The apostles did not deny or abandon Jesus they were confused, scared, shocked. They believed Jesus was the Messiah and the Son of God, they did not doubt that. Even though Jesus told them several times, Jesus being arrested, crucified, buried, and resurrected, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 20:18-19 John 20:9, and more. It was hidden from them. Luke 18:32-34. When He was arrested, crucified, and buried in a tomb they were in shock.
During the time they were with Jesus they thought He was going to set up the kingdom then. They even asked Him before He ascended if He was going to set up the kingdom, Acts 1:6. When He was killed, they did not know what to do, the Messiah, Jesus the Son of God was supposed to set up the kingdom, now He is dead. For three days they mourned and cried not knowing what they would do now.
Then Jesus told them when He met and ate with them and opened their eyes where they would understand, Luke 24:44-47. The purpose of His death and resurrection was hidden from them and Satan. Things was held from them and much they did not remember as Jesus told them in John 14:26.
We think about all the apostles were told and being with Jesus for 3.5 years how we would act if we were there. It is not that simple, as John wrote if everything that Jesus said was written down the world could not hold it, John 22:25.
They never lost their faith they were just in shock for three days and as we see 120 of the disciples were together at Pentecost,
God bless,
RLW
Chris's comment on 2022-01-25 16:52:25:
Hi GiGi. I often think of John 6:66-69 when confronted with the thought of the disciples' spiritual condition: "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."
There were those of Jesus' other disciples (other than the 12), who turned their backs to the Lord, but the 12, bar Judas, remained faithful even though their love & faith in the Lord were often severely tested. As Peter exclaimed, 'to whom can we turn to, to receive the words of eternal life, You the promised Messiah of God?' Maybe, our expectations of the disciples are oddly higher than for the rest of us, given their personal encounter with Jesus & witness of His Glory & Power. But we fail to remember that they were like us in every way, with their doubts, fears, & questions, & they could hardly envisage how their lives would change when the Holy Spirit would one day empower them to live for the Lord, to teach the Truths of God & one day to die for Him. These traits should be characteristic of each one of us who have been touched & changed by God's Spirit, or else we would be mere followers, ever hungering, walking unsteadily, living with doubts & fears. "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
Gigi's comment on 2022-01-25 15:08:20:
Jcbu
Hi
My understanding from reading the last chapters of each Godpel after the resurrection, all of the apostles (except Judas) returns to Jesus, though they had deserted Him during His trial, suffering and death.
Jesusmet and ate with them multiple times after the resurrection and their faith in Him was restored.
It is untrue that the apostles did not believe the gospel until Pentecost. They were empowered for the mission of evangelism at Pentecost, but the last chapters of the gospels and Acts 1 shows us that they believed and were taught by Jesus.
It baffles me that many people seem to believe what you stated despite the evidenc of Scripture. Perhaps some people judge the apostles by their own mindset and not by what Scripture actually says.
The Scripture gives us no reason whatsoever to think that these apostles were not believers before Pentecost.
I encourage you and others to read these passages in the Gospels and Acts 1 to find out more about the apostles Jesus selected to take the Gospel of Him to the world. He did not make a mistake in choosing them nor did He not teach them and ensure they had received faith to believe in Hom before He ascended. To think otherwise is an insult to our Lord and unbelief in what He is able to do and desired to do in His apostles. Read the Last Supper Discourse in John and see how Jesus speaks to and about the apostles.
Jcbu, I am not trying to be critical of your post. I just felt urged to speak to this one item in your post. I appreciate your thoughts.
jcbu undercover's comment on 2022-01-25 07:40:25:
The whole world at that time turned on Jesus Christ even the apostles denied him for a time.Until the Holy Spirit came to them in the upper room.When Jesus died he died for the sin's of the whole world forgive them father they know not what they do.THe father son and holy spirit came to save us all from ourselves,and show the path to heaven.In Jesus name Lord guide my steps ,guide my words,guide my heart.Each person has their own cross to bear,so each person has to have an individual relationship with God through Jesus Christ ,and the Holy Spirit.The gifts of the Holy Spirit,wisdom,understanding,counsel,fortitude,knowledge,piety,and fear of the Lord.The twelve fruits are charity,(or love),joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,long-suffering,gentleness,faith,modesty,(or self control,or temperance),and chastity,(not having sexual intercourse outside of marriage)
Jesse's comment on 2021-01-13 13:16:36:
John Carrols question was answered by a Michael. He errs on this subject. Although abstaining from 'things' and indulging heartily in the scriptures is of great value to the individual, it is not a fast. When Jesus speaks of fasting, it refers solely to food of any kind. No where in scripture is there a different meaning. If you are going to read the Bible, refrain from trying to decode its words. That's a big problem today, thinking we can change scripture the way we want it to mean. I have fasted many times, and the spiritual benefits from doing so, is difficult to convey to others. If you want to fast, read what Jesus says to do, and just do it.
And, remember this, prayer is a big part of your fast. Again, words of Christ. May he bless and guide you as you hunger for more of his blessings.
FASTING's comment on 2020-09-21 15:47:49:
Fasting doesn't necessarily mean from food.
Diabetics should take their meds and eat small meals.
You can declare a fast before the Lord; and turn off all media for a week. Emergency calls only. Spend the week reading the Bible, praying, and listening to spiritual music. It's harder than it reads.
Fast from the world and the system of the world; And feast on the Scriptures.
Mishael
JOHN CARROLL's comment on 2020-09-21 05:41:24:
how does it work with fasting and medication that you have to take ever morning, I want to fast but don't know thanks jc
Nkosinathi Ngulube's comment on 2014-04-21 21:18:23:
We should never compromise the Truth whatsoever the pressure.Christ has given us control.When we open up to compromise we are opening te door to the devil