“And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:”
King James Version (KJV)
Carleton's comment on 2021-05-02 19:30:43:
Good morning Chris, the simplicity, the economy, the modesty in Christ Jesus binds together our knowledge in Him.
Chris's comment on 2021-04-30 18:47:10:
Thanks Carleton. Another great story of how the Lord moves in both the unsaved & witnessing Christian to bring about the salvation of the lost. What we might think as of little consequence in sharing our lives or time with another, can reap mighty results in the Hands of God. This story should renew our desire to share whatever we can, however mediocre, for the blessing of others.
Carolyn Williams's comment on 2021-04-30 11:45:55:
A woman in our bible study group asked: whay are the gifts of the Spirit? Who in the Bible show us an example of each gift of the Spirit being used?
Carleton's comment on 2021-04-30 06:28:08:
I was up close to seeing a born again experience happen in now a brother from reading a children's bible story book. This person came to the US with another language as his own to see what happened to his older brother who had been born again here while travelling. This older couple used the children's bible story book in morning devotions with this young man for several months because he could understand the simple English words with the pictures. One morning he suddenly understood his present position in God as a sinner and by faith reached out to Jesus for salvation and was renewed in the Lord's Spirit. He walked a different life and understanding with peace with God and man from that day on. He has raised a Christian family where children now are also born again. All from a simple country older couple using a bible story book for he and through him others to be saved.
Chris's comment on 2021-04-30 04:49:30:
Hello Richard. KJB Online is a public website & so for obvious reasons phone numbers & other contact information are not allowed & what others see on the Site is what I see as well. So your number wasn't published to me.
You've obviously done a lot of work in this area (& possibly others), for which you would need a Website of your own to make your work available for others to read, digest & discuss. This medium is inadequate for that type of presentation, only for relatively short sharp responses. I have sometimes used several 'pages' for a question that required a detailed response, which was deemed too 'wordy' by some. So I understand your problem; a personal Website would be the way to go & I could engage with that.
You seem to have detected my character as one who has "rejected & criticized the Glorious thingswriting obtuse & obfuscating words". I might have done so if I knew what those 'Glorious things' were. I think that you may not be aware also, that many on this Site are well read in the Scriptures, having read through the Bible several times over. To those who don't know the Word well enough, your discovery of such things might indeed pique their interest in their quest to learn more of the present & future. But for others, we already come with a solid understanding of that which is revealed & if we're presented with something that is extra-biblical (e.g. over 100 references to the U.S. in the OT), then it becomes something of a personal decision to accept or reject. Since I have very little to go on, except for the short discussion on Ephraim & Dan, I'm sorry I haven't detected anything in your comments to urge me to pursue this. Thank you for your time Richard & may you continue to enjoy the Lord's blessings.
Richard Duff's comment on 2021-04-30 02:03:07:
These things are far too lengthy to type into this format allowing a max. of only 2,000 characters. Although I have over the years typed some of these things up, that total is not even probably a fourth of what I have found, to which I have anyway still probably typed up over 200,000 words....so you can see that is a problem.
Perhaps you know someone here in the States that you can phone-connect with, and then they can "conference-call" to me and I can then spend a few hours showing both of you these things(?) We could also do it in multiple calls-conversations, if you and he would like, to not be on the phone quite so long each time.
Or, if you can somehow get me your email address...since this - this at first seeming sound, good, and valuable site, but then proving to be counter-productive - will not allow folks to swap personal contact information so as to further accommodate, build, and nurture John chapter 17 Glorious True Christian relationships. Knowing of no other way to contact them, I have even written the site managers directly in this system, asking them to let me send my contact info to others; but these folks have not yet responded to me, yea or nay. (Did my phone number even get to you in the previous email? On my end here the site management apparently deleted the number, they returning to me my own writing, sending it back to me about a day later, the phone number blocked out...but, again, did my number make it through to you?)
But now, Chris - although I hope I am wrong, and that you will somehow still call me and spend the time needed on the phone to indeed prove me wrong...but I sadly now know what and who you are - you have now twice in your responses rejected and criticized the Glorious things I was telling you of, writing obtuse and obfuscating words of supposed "problems", rather than, as a True Christian would, responding with alert interest and full attempt at belief with alive excited desire to see and know these Truths.
Chris's comment on 2021-04-29 23:08:36:
Hello Richard. I can understand that Ephraim is seen as Joseph, but why mention Joseph, when his other son, Manasseh is mentioned separately in Rev 7? Joseph was generally seen by his sons' names, but here, Manasseh is separated, Ephraim is not mentioned, but Joseph is.
And of course, Dan is missing from Rev 7 & as you referred to Judges 5:17, "Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches." Both the territories of Dan & Asher were hard against the Mediterranean with their major ports of Joppa & Tyre respectively. You seem to have found a special answer to this, & since calling you won't be possible, you may like to share here what you have learned that is different to what Judges 5:17 indicates. As well as that mysterious verse that gives inconclusive proof to use only the KJV to the rejection of all others and the USA-in-the KJV proofs. You're keeping all of us on tenterhooks. Thank you.
Carleton's comment on 2021-04-29 11:40:19:
I support Brother Chris in this second paragraph, when we follow this way, we have Jesus present with us always and we fall into less error and more importantly do not hinder others coming to Christ. The Bible is complete in itself, we just need to be humble believers. I am thankful how God leads in His people's gifts.
Richard Duff's comment on 2021-04-29 05:28:40:
Howdy again from a while ago. I did not have enough "characters" to mention this before.
Re: the KJV translation, have you found the absolute Truth, the obscure Old Testament verse in which God makes it clear He wants those that will be True to Him to indeed use His KJV?! I have seen discussions from writers for years with all the reasons/arguments to accept and use the KJV only...and those are all well and good...accurate as far as I know...BUT!...ONE VERSE IS ALL that is EVER NEEDED!!
12 or 13 years ago I was going through a deep & detailed study of the O.T. ...and I HIT IT ONE DAY!! The moment I read it, I KNEW!! God has it right there in an otherwise obscure OT verse that says to use His KJV...and that all others should be shunned. So, I went to Bible book stores in a few different cities in my travels over the next year or two; and to secular book stores also, as in them I found they even carry more versions and publishers than Bible/Christian book stores do. In all this time I found about a dozen-and-a-half other versions...and all were wrong... none had it like the KJV.
Then, knowing there were more than just those roughly 18, I spent a good bit of time finding all I could on-line, which came to a total of 35 more, now equaling 53 non-KJV's. So that was a total of 54...and all the other 53 are God-taught to be, at best, shunned or very, very cautiously used - and that is only maybe 2 or 3 of them - while all else are versions from which a person CANNOT EVEN BE SAVED.
Now, no personal criticism intended, Chris, but I would imagine I am correct when I say that, until I also show you that AWESOME, AWESOME, verse - which I later realized IS ALSO ANOTHER ONE THAT ABSOLUTELY SHOWS AND PROVES AMERICA IN THE BIBLE - you will certainly have a hard time believing this I say! And since that time a dozen years ago...I have found several more KJV-only & USA-in-the KJV proofs. So, as per that prior email, call me and I will gladly show you! Richard
Richard Duff's comment on 2021-04-29 03:14:40:
Hello Again, Chris,
Wow...that is awesome to me that you have been right here before! What a thing!!
But other than that, I think you have missed the point and Truth that indeed Joseph IS Ephraim, and that is what is being said in Revelation, especially being that Manasseh, the other half-tribe of Joseph in addition to Ephraim, is also separately listed...thus a FULL 12 - TWELVE - Tribes-of-Israel NAMES...but totaling only ELEVEN TRIBES are in Revelation chapter 7's TWELVE NAMES LISTING...12...BUT NOT DAN!! Revelation 7 is the only listing in the Bible of the 12 Tribes where Dan is missing!! And being that Revelation is discussing and REVEALING by Almighty God Jesus Christ things END-TIME...that makes the Judges 5:17 question of God's so, so critical for the Bible believer to come to the answer of that will absolutely prove THE END IS HERE!
So then going back to that I was saying before, and saying it a little differently, it is deeply alluded to that the student must pray and look for, per the 3 passages, Genesis 49:16-18, Judges 5:17 mid-clause, and Revelation 7, the "and why did Dan remain in ships?"! That is what I studied to find some years ago and was asking you about; and that I would like to show you, being that you have not yet found the answer to that question of God's!!
So let me say and ask it this way: do you have means to phone me here in the U.S.? I have never called long-distance on my cell phone, and have no idea how to set such a thing up. So, if you can?!...**** is my number!
Then, I am not talking any "prophetical interpretations"; nor am I at all involved with anyone else in finding these things in hundreds and even thousands of my-own-by-myself hours of study over the years...these things are clear and guaranteed, and I am sure a couple hours on the phone together would have you absolutely convinced of and thrilled at these things! Want to do it?!!
I am completely flexible time-wise, so you pick it! Cordially, Richard
Chris's comment on 2021-04-29 01:28:06:
Hi Richard. We are 15 hours ahead of you here in Perth & just having some Autumn (Fall) rains as I write. My wife & I were in SLC a couple of years ago, meeting up with a Delta pilot friend who was hitching a ride on another aircraft to meet his own aircraft in another city. As well, we had a great coach tour from SLC through Idaho & Montana. We always enjoy visiting the U.S. & catching up with friends who are spread all over - but all that is now curtailed, for a long while I expect.
I have to admit, I'm not into such prophetical interpretations as you are involved in. I don't say that is wrong to do, but I can't in all good conscience take to such interpretations, let alone teach them. I'm satisfied with what we can clearly see in the Scriptures, & even if some of the countries mentioned in Ezekiel 38 (e.g. Magog, Meshech, Tubal) cannot be correctly identified, it does provide us with something that we can refer to. But to bring in the U.S., U.K., & others into the Scripture, I personally find difficult to do.
And with the Tribe of Dan, as also Ephraim, who are missing in the list in Revelation 7, there has been speculation. As also the mention of 13 Tribes in other OT Scriptures, where Joseph is left out & his sons, Ephraim & Manasseh are given. And then Joseph & Manasseh are found in Rev 7, but Ephraim is missing. I wonder whether there is any relation to the missing Ephraim & Dan tribes. Maybe the fact that they both were involved in idolatry & increasing apostasy in some way (Judges chapters 17-21) caused them being omitted. May you have the Lord's Wisdom, Richard, as you search the Scriptures to formulate teachings in respect to the End Times.
Richard Duff's comment on 2021-04-28 06:13:20:
So we are what, then, you being in Australia?...about 12 hours apart time-wise?, as I am presently in Salt Lake City, Utah, it being now 2:00 A.M., USA Mountain-time. (Don't worry, I am not at all so-blind, so-deceived, and so-misguided Mormon/LDS!)
Yes, I am up now in the wee-hours of the morning, as I often am in Bible reading, and writing what I hope are encouraging evangelical Bible messages to both email and to print to hand out in public places. I have no family other than a landscape-architect sister in South Carolina, and a retired policeman brother in Atlanta, Georgia; and plus being now basically retired myself due to Covid I can do just about any sort of wake/sleep schedule as I might like, thus my often being up much overnight!
Let me ask you, what do you find of Prophetic End-Times Truth in the Bible? I have discovered America in tremendous amounts - probably well over 100 mentions in the Old Testament - as well much of England/the UK-British Isles, and even some references probably of where you are, Australia. I have also found reference to John Lennon and that most evil of antiChrist songs, Imagine, that he hatefully in-His-Face wrote against Almighty God Jesus Christ years ago.
Have you ever noticed that interesting quandary about the Hebrew Tribe of Dan...that for all the mentions of that Tribe in all the listings of the 12 Tribes/12 Sons of Israel in the Bible, that Dan is completely missing in the End-Times Revelation chapter 7 listing of the 12 Tribes?! See Genesis 49:16-18, and the awesome question God asks in the middle clause of Judges 5:17! I have found the answer to the great quandary of those 3 passages - Rev. 7:4-8, Genesis 49:16-18, & Judges 5:17 middle clause 7 words...and they are full of End-Time significance, as one would expect being that these 3 areas of the Scriptures are indeed End-Time sections! I have even found substantiating secular proofs to these verses, thus showing the End is definitely here! Richard"
J2row's comment on 2021-04-27 14:20:21:
The one True God, Yahweh is spelled with a capital G, not a lower case g. And furthermore, God exists is three persons as stated in 1 John 5:7 quotes, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Notice how the Triune God is mentioned several times by references plural pronouns such as us and our; describing the Trijne Godhead.
Mark 12:36-37 quotes, "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly."
John 1-5 quotes, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14 quotes, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 19:30 quotes, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
John 15:26-27 quotes, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."
The Father, Yahweh is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. They are the same person.
Chris's comment on 2021-04-26 23:35:54:
Hello Richard. Indeed, this is a great Website & very needful as the Lord might lead some here with questions, answers to which they cannot easily get elsewhere. I too happened on this Site a few years ago, primarily to have the App on my phone in case I suddenly needed to refer to the Scriptures & did not have my Bible, but in the last couple of years, was intrigued enough to search the Site further & come to this Discussion Page. And when Covid struck us & we were all confined to the house, I saw this Page as very useful to learn & share as a ministry.
My story is long & probably shouldn't be posted here but under 'Christian Testimonies', but to briefly answer your question: I'm 67 yrs of age of Indian (from India)/Armenian stock, retired & living in Perth, Western Australia. I came to know the Lord at a very early age through godly parents but after joining the Armed Services (RAAF), I soon departed the faith through the deceptions from fellow personnel. In hindsight, I don't see that my faith was real as I was under the influence of my parents & not by personal conviction. The Lord had to allow me to go through deep waters (of sin, drunkenness & debauchery), to the point of deep contrition of my many sins, before He could save me as I cried out to Him for mercy & salvation.
No Scriptures came to mind at that time as I already had knowledge of biblical Truth but it earlier failed to touch my heart. But when that moment came (in Oct, 1979), the Lord had seen to it that those in my living quarters were out so that I could have this encounter with Him. Almost all things that kept me from the Lord fell away, with some habits being dealt with. Because of that experience with His Spirit, the Books of Romans, Hebrews & 1 John are particularly precious to me. And after leaving the Service in 1980, I was involved in children's ministry, open-air preaching, Missions (in France, UK, Pakistan), Bible studies & witnessing, including some RC friends of ours. Every blessing.
Chris's comment on 2021-04-25 20:30:40:
Thank you Richard for those insights. I do agree with you, that Matthias wasn't appointed with the eleven till much later on (as you indicated, about 40+ days later). However, as it was the Apostle Paul writing this: "And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve", I should have explained my reason further: Paul wasn't necessarily seeing Matthias as part of the twelve at that point, but that Matthias (not being in the 'inner circle' of disciples) was also a witness to Jesus' resurrection at some point, who happened to be (later on) one of the twelve. But of course, that is just a guess as we're not told this & just my attempt to place Matthias with the others. But your suggestion of Paul giving the number 12 for simplicity's sake, is noted & quite possible. However, I don't believe that the twelve included any women, as was suggested by Maggie, the original enquirer.
Richard Duff's comment on 2021-04-25 09:16:50:
Hello Chris, re: I Corinthians 15:5,
Please read Acts 1:13-26, in which you will see that Matthias was not chosen until well after Jesus' Resurrection AND His Ascension back into Heaven - somewhere about 40+ days after His Resurrection from the dead, best I think the contexts give us to try to figure this out, and "40 days" being indeed given in Acts 1:3 - Jesus appearing to the remaining 11 Disciples together, plus others as per Luke chapter 24, especially verses 9 & 33. "Eleven" are also spoken of in Matthew 28:16 and Mark 16:14, thus Matthias was not yet included with them.
I think these are all collectively referred to by God in I Corinthians 15:5 as "The Twelve" for simplicity of clear definition and identification of who all is being spoken of...the central nucleus of the "Twelve" Disciples of Jesus as seen over and over in the Gospel narratives; and the number Twelve fully corresponding to the 12 Tribes of Israel as per the last line of Revelation 21:12, with that clear relation given to the "twelve Apostles of The Lamb" in Revelation 21:14.
To say it another way and make a further point, I do not believe this I Corinthians 15:5 terminology of "The Twelve" constitutes anything of a discrepancy or contradiction of Scripture, when at that time discussed by Paul "eleven" would have been perhaps the more exacting number; the word "twelve" being just a simplification that clearly explains who is being spoken of, and that keeps the discussion going as everyone would understand what was being said and who was being referred to!
Chris's comment on 2021-01-15 18:49:42:
I understand the order of appearance as follows (aside from the two Marys, Joanna & other women) from 1 Corinthians 15:5: Peter first saw the empty tomb. Then all them together (the twelve, which included Judas' replacement, Matthias). After that over 500 of Christ's followers. Then again all the apostles including James saw Jesus & finally Paul himself as the last apostle who had that encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus.
Maggie on 1 Corinthians 155's comment on 2021-01-15 08:51:29:
In the same verse of Scripture, the Apostles are called out with James. Thus leading me to the conclusion that the 12 here are not in reference to the Apostles. Another fact is Judas is dead, and no long among the Apostles. So the question of an astute student is, who are the 12 Paul the Apostle is referring to? I do believe Paul is including Mary, Joanna, and Martha among this number. Pauls's information would have come second hand either from Peter or James. Which I believe most likely this was an accounting relayed unto Paul by Cephas, Peter the Apostle.
verona brown's comment on 2015-04-22 09:52:18:
I agree with the bible but also know Jesus was seen by a woman first and her name was mary mag i dont dispute the word of God i believe what the bible it was cephas so let it be amen
Betty's comment on 2013-02-10 04:13:53:
Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalena first, but Paul wouldn't dream of giving credit to a woman. Jesus told Mary to go and tell the brethren.
It was Jesus giving dignity and respect to woman by choosing to appear to Mary first.